Thoughts about season 2

Discussion in 'PMSC Season 1 (finished)' started by Andreas Löffler, Dec 30, 2013.


Would you like to join season 2 ?

Sure, yes! 8 vote(s) 88.9%
No way, no! 1 vote(s) 11.1%
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  1. Andreas Löffler SRP League Organiser

    As the title says, this thread is for all interested drivers to post and discuss ideas for season 2.

    Feel free to post about everything you like regarding PMSC. No matter whether positive or negative, I will look at everything to use for season 2.

    First ideas from me:
    • 8 races + King of the Ring at the end of season (I plan a vote to find the 4 most popular tracks of this season, the rest will replaced with new tracks)
    • Best Rookie Cup (new drivers or drivers with less than 3 races this season will take part)
    • start numbers according first season standings
  2. Rob Hermans SRP Manager

    I like those ideas Andreas, and I have a few to contribute. Having made the decision to stop taking part in RACE07 leagues after the PMSC, I could make an exception...because it's you...and because this is one of the best leagues I've been in. :D

    Might it be possible to find a way to prevent some of the more boring aspects of the racing? If you ask me, the best way to get boring racing is to always have the fastest cars starting at the front. Race 2 is always more interesting, but only for the top 8!

    My suggestion is to remove qualifying completely and have the cars start Race 1 in reverse championship order. It would be far more interesting and would put emphasis on clean passing by the faster drivers. Some details would have to be worked out (like what happens when two drivers are on the same points?), and although I like the 3-stage qualifying we use at the moment, I feel it would be even better if we had no Q sessions at all.
  3. Chris Shepherd Licensed Driver

    I think the no Q is a bad idea though. Perhaps have race 2 as a complete grid reverse order and not just the top 8. This way, you won't have the problem of drivers on the same points. ;)

    No Qually, ludicrous! ;)
  4. Andreas Löffler SRP League Organiser

    He He, i thought already this wouldn't like the a bit faster guys. For the fun it would sure nice, but a league is anywhere also the search for the best one and not the luckiest one :). So, one race with the fastest from qualy must be there. The qualy is already made for more interesting first run and from my point of view that worked nicely so far.

    To turn the whole field for race 2 would be possible with a formation lap but would be more complex and with 25 drivers maybe too fault-prone. Like in IFM cars could go 1 by 1 but that take a while, not that one fall asleep during that ;). And maybe the biggest point against for me is the big difference between the drivers of about 3 sec. After race 1 you have a rythm anywhere and then race 2 you start behind the slowest can be quite dangerous. Cause there simply arise traffic jams behind the slower drivers. I did that already with GSC Minis and believe me it isn't fun if you have to brake 300m earlier to avoid a crash but you have still fast guys behind you who wonder what you are doing ... - just chaos over first laps in worst case. And then the most lucky one wins, which isn't in sin of the invntor.
    I understand your intenetion Rob, but with lesser sign outs this season it would be sure closer that also drivers behind P8 would had a more interesting race in second run.

    No qualifying at all :eek:, ... this could be a suggestion from Bernie :D. Common, i still try to simulate real racing. Have you any series where this format is applied ? :p
    Qualifying is always also to see who did the best job in practice before the race and get it together over one lap. 4 different pole drivers in 7 races isn't a bad rate. If you use the standings in reverse order you may have the same man on pole over the whole season :eek:. Wouldn't look nice in highlight vids ;). We could also drw lots, but again - this would be not in sin of racing for a championship. Motto is still to be faster, faster and faster. If you aren't fastest, try/ do all to be fastest :). A guy, named Senna had even better sayings abaout racing, you remember :D ?

  5. Bjorn de Haas Licensed Driver

    What about adding weather to make it more dynamic?
  6. Chris Shepherd Licensed Driver

    Does the game not have a file that can have a specific line changed from top8 reverse grid to top25 reverse grid ?

    Just a thought, probably a silly one^ ;)
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  7. Andreas Löffler SRP League Organiser

    Of course thats always nice to have an interesting, unpredictable race. But sometimes i have the feeling some are much angry if they trained and then get surprised by the weather which they didn't train :rolleyes: and waste their race. From this we had for example quite exact weatherforecasts for BTCC (with needed tyre and so on). And this is then not much real from my point of view. I was thinking to do it this season with looking at the real weather at the specific racetrack as most of them have a weather prediction in internet. But as i and Rob driving self in the league we would need a not driving person who can create a weather file. With all to do before the season i also didn't ask if someone want to do it and it was also not a theme in forum before, but for next why not!?
    But as said i would not give specific weather info then. Just look at this weather page from track - something like that you can expect, so that noone know what happens. For the "weatherman" who create the weather comes of course a big responsibility to make realistic, not too strange weather every race. For example i can't remember a rain race this F1 season, so realistic is sure to have not every second race rain. Ok, lucky breaks happens but if someone remember STC ;), that would be not my view of normal weather.

    So, i'm open for weather how i explained it and if that find agreement i would try to implement it next season.
  8. Rob Hermans SRP Manager

    It's not possible to edit the grid in R07, and the reversed top 8 for race 2 is hard-coded AFAIK. We would need to confirm that with someone who has greater knowledge of the code. MvS for example?

    Imo, R07 does not provide adequately for wet racing: scripted weather is absolutely awful unless someone, preferably a non-participant, as Andreas suggests, "constructs" the weather files for every (potentially) wet race. Even then, it's hardly an exact science; we learned that it's very hard to control the amount of water falling on the track using numbers in a text file, and usually we ended up with unwanted effects. Besides, it takes a load of time and effort, and there are very few SRP members who have the skills to assist with that.

    I do understand everyone's misgivings regarding the suggestion of doing away with qualifying, but it was only a suggestion! I do think it could work with enough attention to the details...there isn't a real life series I can think of which has no qualifying, but it should be tried at some point.

    As for all the romantic ideals put across in the Senna quotes, it means nothing; great racing comes from great racing drivers, and it doesn't mean they always have to start at the front to show their skills. In fact, I have a lot more respect for a fast driver who is patient and takes care to make clean passes (possibly giving up a top finish), than for one who barges his way to front to take a win. o_O
  9. Andy Breedon SRP Manager

    mWieght allows for grid orders i think, though alot of work to be done in-between a race and since steam change file structures mweight does not seem to work correctly any more.

    When it comes to the weather creater it depends upon two things, one are you clearly stating what the forecast is? if so create and race it make no difference. If however you are not declaring the forecast then someone who isn't in the league will need to do it... :)
    We followed the btcc real life weather best we could sometimes manually changing things to suit what is best, but it can be done and worked pretty well in s2 imo.

    No quali, no point imo, trying to control the aliens all the time is a bad idea, we need the sims to help us do that in way of success ballast, easy reverse grid ordering. Maybe try parce ferme for quali session.
  10. Rob Hermans SRP Manager

    I fail to see the point of mentioning mWeight if it doesn't work anymore? :confused:

    Yes, completely agree with your ideas regarding the use of scripted weather, particularly re the forecast (or lack thereof).

    Totally disagree with your last point. The reason I suggest removing qualifying is NOT to "control the aliens" as you put it. If anything, it should allow them to show their prowess even more, by overtaking slower cars in the same way as they do now in race 2. Personally, I'm not a fan of adding success ballast; it's too artificial, and to make it fair, it should be adjusted for every race. Difficult when we to 2-race events.
    Imposing parc fermé conditions between Q and R will tend to favour those who are more skilled at car setup and/or those who have more ability to compensate for less-than-perfect handling... :rolleyes:

  11. Andy Breedon SRP Manager

    "seem to work correctly any more." :rolleyes:

    It is all artificial Rob. Least it works. ;)

    That's the case already isnt it? whats the difference for anyone nothing everyone would have to develop a q set up, all good learning and practice makes perfect.
  12. Rob Hermans SRP Manager

    Not "seeming" to work and not working...same difference: the result is the same if we can't use it?

    What's "all artificial"? The fact that we're racing virtually makes no difference, imo adding weight to slow a competitor down is an unfair way to achieve a performance balance. Think of it this way: do you want to give drivers an incentive to lose? No, so don't add weight to their car so they have to do a few bad races to lose the weight again. Simple as that.

    You're right...partly. Practice does NOT make perfect...only perfect practice makes perfect...see what I did there? :D

  13. Andreas Löffler SRP League Organiser

    Maybe for a more fictive championship, PMSC is/ want to be leaned more to the real cup. Eventually we could create/ invent something in the future :).
  14. Chris Shepherd Licensed Driver

    The full 25 driver reverse grid could work this way maybe ? Im not sure. If all drivers were on TS. After Race1, everyone leaves server. League organiser then instructs drivers, one-by-one, to re-join the server. Boom, there is your reversed 25 man grid. ??? ;)
  15. Eric Stranne Licensed Driver

    Seems like an aweful lot of hassle just to create a wreckfest?
  16. Rob Hermans SRP Manager

    Have ye no faith in the ability of faster drivers to overtake the slower ones? ...not to mention faith in the slower drivers to behave like good little back-marker boys and avoid causing accidents by blocking them? :p
  17. Chris Shepherd Licensed Driver

    What you have to remember young Stranne is that everyone's definition of hassle is different. :p
  18. Andreas Löffler SRP League Organiser

    If theres much time between drivers laptimes i agree with this. I experienced this already in GSC with the Minis, it was awful to have a complete turned field of almost 40 drivers. For a funevent ok, but in a league. I believe that make no nice races - not for the faster ones and also not for the slower ones. It feels like lapping someone, only without he make room for you and if then the difference in laptime is high, it easy come to unexpected situations. I wouldn't join such a league again.
    In a single event, where position doesn't matter could be fun. But in a league race that would to me quite stressful and annoying. Not everybody is as cool as a cocumber (laut LEO: die Ruhe selbst) :). I would get more and more green in such a race probably if anything happen and that from race to race again.
  19. Chris Shepherd Licensed Driver

  20. Rob Hermans SRP Manager

    Andreas, the only times you were behind slower cars in the Mini league was when you didn't qualify well; there was no reversed grid situation. I don't believe that you only get fun out of being in front and faster than everyone else? Patience is a virtue, and if you get stuck, it can be annoying, but why let it make you angry? I don't understand that thinking at all; when you eventually find a way past cleanly, that's surely better than making contact just to make progress?

    I do agree that qualifying is a skill in itself, and it highlights which drivers have the short run pace, and if they continue that into the race, they show themselves to be excellent at that as well. But that's my point: you end up with always the same guys at the front, and therefore the championships are dominated by the same drivers all the time. That's fine if you're one of those (I notice that all the guys arguing against abolishing qualifying are the ones who are regular pole sitters!), but it becomes pretty tedious for everyone else to have zero chance of even a top 5. :(

    Fair enough, there's large spread of talent/race pace, so it might be less suitable here, but can no one see how boring ANY racing can get if the fastest start at the front every time?
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